Field Research: Michael Dolich of Four Worlds Bakery

The idea to start my own food business first appeared nine years ago.  In undergrad, I dreamed of opening a specialty chocolate-slash-candy store, not only supplying home bakers with delicious ingredients, but also offering much-loved retro and imported candies from all over the globe.  From there, my imaginary food business evolved to an old fashioned coffee shop-style diner, featuring a small menu of burgers, fries, pie, cakes, ice cream, and coffee.  While living in Los Angeles my roommate and I brainstormed ideas for a dive bar with killer munchies.  And now, five years later, my mind keeps telling me to sell my homemade cookies.

It's time for me to take my imaginary food business to the next level:  from coulda woulda to what can be.  With little business education or culinary training, I'm setting out to conduct extensive field research, including interviews with food entrepreneurs.  I'm very excited to present my first "Field Research" post, an interview with Four Worlds Bakery owner and head baker, Michael Dolich.

My Four Worlds discovery occurred at the Fair Food Farmstand at the Reading Terminal Market about four months ago.  I picked up a loaf of their multigrain bread - it was dense and extremely heavy.  Heavy in price too - about $6 a loaf.  I remember thinking the price was well worth it for extremely fresh, all-natural ingredients made by local hands.  (That the bread was absolutely delicious goes without saying).

Fast forward a month later: a new coffee shop in my neighborhood opens, Ultimo, featuring Four Worlds' buttery croissants and chewy, crusty baguettes.  I was immediately hooked (again).

A professional baker since 2006, Michael Dolich started Four Worlds in the basement of his West Philly home, offering weekly pick up to local residents outside on his porch.  Now situated in Kaffa Crossing and Restaurant, Michael distributes to area businesses, including Fair Food, Satellite Café, and Cream and Sugar Sweet Shop (no relation!)  Check out the interview below for more of Michael's story.

Cream & Sugar Kitchen: So I guess I should start by saying that your almond croissant is pretty much the best thing I've ever eaten.  Ever.

Michael Dolich: Where did you get it?

C&SK: Ultimo, in South Philly.

MD: Oh, okay.

C&SK: I wanted to get a little more information about your baking background.  You went on a spiritual retreat (to Elat Chayyim in the Catskills) in 2003 and was tasked with bread baking.  Had you baked much prior to that?

MD: (Shakes head no) 

C&SK: Do you come from a family of bakers?

MD: No.  Well I was baking bread at home, just making challah on Fridays.  I mean the first time I ever baked bread was at my brother's wedding and that was like, well he pretty much did it, I just helped him and it was, like eight years ago.  Actually eight years ago today so it's his anniversary.  Thank you for reminding me, I gotta call him.  I remember trying it later at home and it didn't rise (laughs).

C&SK:  Your previous professional career was as a lawyer.  Would you say it was a gradual step to baking as a business or one day did you just wake up and say "Okay, I'm done with my 9 to 5."

MD: Definitely gradually.

C&SK:  So it wasn't just overnight.  Were you consciously unhappy practicing law?

MD: Well, I liked what I did, but I also didn't understand why I didn't like it.  At first I was a trial lawyer, so that was thrilling for awhile, and then I just thought I don't want to do this for the rest of my life and fight with people, you know?  Like fighting people's wars for them is not what I want to do with my life, so I started getting into mediation and alternative dispute resolution, that kind of stuff.  And then the same thing happened - I didn't really want to mediate people's conflict either.  I don't want to fight for them and I really don't want to mediate their conflict (laughs).  But I needed to learn that and it was really important personally to study it and learn it.  Looking back on it, now I understand really what the problem was.  Intellectually it was really interesting and challenging, and it definitely paid pretty well, but the problem was I needed to work with my hands.  It was that simple.  It was something I would never think of looking at.

C&SK: Most people I think don't think of that, really, in terms of career.

MD: Yeah.  It's like I think human bodies, at least my human body, is not meant to sit in an office all day long.

C&SK: I think most people would agree with you there.

MD: It's just not good for you (laughs).

C&SK: How did your apprenticeship with Baker Street Bakery in Chestnut Hill come about?  Was it a job that you applied for or was it more of a formal apprenticeship?

MD: No, it was a job.  I happened to apply at a time when they were hiring people who really wanted to bake bread, and not hiring those who just wanted a job.  I mean I wrestle with that too when I hire people.  I mean do I want someone who's going to come and stay --

C&SK: Or someone who really cares about this business.

MD: Yeah.  Most people who are really passionate about it probably won't stay very long.  So you just never know.

C&SK: Were you really happy there?

MD: Oh I loved it.  The only reason I left is because it was really a money thing.  The only way I could live was to work this other job I had on weekends.  I needed a three day weekend to go work at this retreat center.  But then one day I came in (to Baker Street) and they said I had to work five days a week.  And I said if I do that I lose my weekend job and I can't afford to do that.  So I left and gave them three weeks notice. 

C&SK: What would you say were the most important things you learned from Baker Street and working at Le Bec Fin bakery that really prepared you for where you are now?

MD: Well, really just moving large quantities of dough.  But I probably learned more things that I needed to unlearn than anything else.  When I first started baking there I had baked on my own a lot and experimented a lot.  And even when working at Baker Street, I was mixing at home by hand.

C&SK: So you weren't operating your business from home yet.

MD: No, not yet.  But I was experimenting at home and taking my dough to work and baking it in the oven.

C&SK: That's a good system (laughs).

MD: Yeah (laughs).  It was the only way I could do it back then.  And they had good ovens.  And that was about it.  They're doing everything right, they're doing everything the way you're supposed to bake bread, but there's so many corners that they cut in quality of the ingredients and production.  It's better than 95% of the bread out there.  But I realized early on that I was after something else, and it was a good experience to learn all of this stuff.

C&SK: I don't think you have an official partnership with Kaffa Crossing - how did that come about? 

MD: What happened was, they called me to make a multigrain roll for them.  At that time I was actually looking for a place to move my bakery to and I was telling everybody I need a place, asking if anyone knew a place. And so we talked about the multigrain roll and I said fine and I mentioned I was looking for a place.  The owner said there's space that could be turned into a bakery and I never even met this guy and he was like you could use that if you want.  So I came and looked at the space and we ended up having to gut the whole thing pretty much.  But it was just a storage room, no electricity and there was no water, it was just essentially a garage. 

C&SK: Did you personally invest in all this to make it a bakery?

MD: Mostly the owner of Kaffa paid for it.  I had to put the electricity in, but I gave him an option, I said I would be willing to invest in it, but I'm not just going to rent it from you.  So the owner hired the contractors and I pay rent.  So when I leave, it's his space, but all the equipment is mine.

C&SK: Well that's the most important part I guess...somewhat?

MD: Well you need space...

(laughing)

C&SK: What were some of the major challenges in the beginning when you were baking at home, as opposed to challenges now that you have a more formal space.  Are they the same or are they different?

MD: Well, it's exactly the opposite - the challenge before at home was how do I grow?  And the challenge here is how do I not grow.

C&SK: One of your recent blog posts is about your expansion, bagel and croissant delivery to West Philly cafés.  And obviously you're going to South Philly now and other places...

MD: Well actually they're (South Philly) coming here (laughs).

C&SK: Oh they're coming here!  Ok so they come to you.

MD: I told them (Ultimo Coffee) I couldn't deliver so they come and pick it up every morning.

C&SK: So is that a concern, I mean has the expansion gone well?  Are you concerned that there's been too much growth?

MD: Yeah actually it's been great, the croissant has been doing wonderful.  But every time I try to expand the bread, it doesn't really work.  I could do more croissant but I've decided to just ride the summer out.  Because one of my bakers quit right before the summer.

C&SK: Did you see that coming?

MD: Yeah, yeah she gave me lots of notice.  And I was going to replace her, so I hired this other baker and she got really sick and it ended up for health reasons she couldn't take the job.  So I just decided, and I have one other baker, to just ride the summer out and let's just try to do it for the summer.  And it turned out that things really slowed down.  But because I didn't hire another baker I was actually more profitable than I was in the Spring.  So everything turned out really well.  I've been working pretty hard, doing all the bread myself basically, and my other baker is working three or four days doing the croissant and other things. 

C&SK: What's your typical schedule like here?

MD: I work Monday through Friday.  And then my other baker works Saturday, Sunday, Monday.

C&SK: Long hours I assume?  Early mornings?

MD: I wouldn't say it's long, eight to nine hours.  But it's just early, we start at 4:30am.

C&SK: What gives you the most pleasure in Four Worlds?

MD: I like when I'm the busiest and I have 10 or 15 things I'm doing, I have Grateful Dead playing, an old tape from 1974 playing or streaming on the internet, and I feel like I'm not even here.  It's like some other force is doing all the work, and I'm just kind of watching.  And it's all just going right through me.  It only comes with mastering, like once you've mastered the process you don't really have to think about it.  You can enter a zone and it's so efficient and everything goes so smoothly.  That's my favorite time and it usually happens at 5 o'clock in the morning (laughs), almost every day I'm here.  For some reason it only works when I'm alone, I can't really do that with other people in here.  But that's really my favorite part.

C&SK: Is there anything new that you'd like to put on your menu or roster?

MD: Oh, I'd love to, but it's so hard to add new stuff.  That's one thing I've learned.  I would like to experiment with the croissant, and do different flavors, seasonal, like during blueberry season make some sort of blueberry or like a blueberry peach croissant.

C&SK: You have to do that someday!

MD: The problem is I'm not a pastry chef and to make the cream, I only know how to make a different type of cream because I learned it at Le Bec Fin.  If it goes wrong I don't know how to fix it.  I'm not trained in that area.  I just don't have the time and money right now to mess around and experiment with it.  And I learned early on to only bake commercially what you're an expert in.  So don't say, for example, I want to make a blueberry peach croissant and then not have any idea how I want to make it and then offer it next week.  And even if I do know how to make it, you have to do it over and over again before you really master it.  And the croissant business really works well when it's consistent and it's the same and people know what they're getting.  There's no surprises.  Really what you're after is that person who gets addicted to it and comes in and is like "I want my almond croissant."  I was at a dinner party a few months ago, and one of my really good friends was there, and we were eating dinner.  He asked me how the bakery was going and I said fine, we just started making croissants.  And he was like "Do you make the almond croissant at Satellite?" And I was like yeah and he was like "I eat that every day!"

C&SK: I go every Saturday and Sunday for the almond croissant.

MD: See that's why on Saturday and Sunday our order goes up a little bit.  People come out on weekends that don't come out during the week.  When I first started I was totally experimenting a lot and I had a bunch of customers that would order whatever the new thing was all the time and try it and give me feedback.  And that really worked for awhile. 

C&SK: Two last questions, they're kinda silly.  Do you have a favorite baked good, whether you make it or someone else makes it, to eat?

MD: I like lemon bars.  I don't make them (laughs).

C&SK: And what's your favorite food, just generally.  That's a broad question, I know.

MD: Anything local, I'm totally all about.  I love local food.  I just bought this big watermelon and it was $10 (laughs).  But it was so good.  I'm willing to pay like three times the price for local food. 

Four Worlds Bakery items are available for order and pick up on Wednesdays, Thursdays, and Fridays.  You can also find them at the Fair Food Farmstand and a number of Philadelphia cafés.  Click here for a location list and for detailed ordering information. Subscribe to the mailing list!

Four Worlds Bakery
4423 Chestnut
(Sharing the location with Kaffa Crossing)
Philadelphia, PA 19104
215-760-5832

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Comments

[dynowright]

Great interview!

[Earle]

Great read!

[sara girlscantell]

i love that he doesn't make his own favorite baked good! that's priceless!

and now you've gotten me addicted to four worlds' almond croissants, thanks, jaime. ;)